Right, so in case you didn't know, I finally guest-wrote for more-or-less my favourite place for reading about rock and roll ever, Manchester Music. What did I write? An interview with the fucking excellent proggers Trojan Horse. Go read it here!
Also, if you haven't seen them live in a while, I suggest that you get down to the Japanchester show on Thursday. It's for charity, you cheapskates.
In other news, I really really really want this on RSD-
Time for a story. Twelve years ago, five students met at music school in Salford. Forced to collaborate on a group project, they played set of covers at a concert together, and began to sense potential in the air. A Mogwai concert under the influence of acid was all that remained to form Oceansize, the most famous British experimental band of the last ten years behind Porcupine Tree. Three albums and several EPs in, they've returned with a new offering, Self Preserved While the Bodies Float Up. With the record as musically outspoken as they themselves have been at times, HV caught up with frontman Mike Vennart in between his duties as Biffy Clyro's touring guitarist to discuss it.
How would you describe the new album vis-à-vis your previous efforts?
“Vis-à-vis? Nobody's ever said that before. Erm, I guess it's more mature sounding. It's probably the most melodic. Rather than me writing all the vocal melodies this time I actually got the rest of the band involved and we worked on things. It was much more working in factions, two or three of us rather than all five of us jamming all the time... all the old stuff is written almost entirely of jams, since we record absolutely everything we play. For a long time, I didn't think we'd ever top the second album, because I held it in such high regard. I know that it was the most unafraid, don't-give-a-fuck sort of record, but now I can hear the holes, hear a bit of immaturity which I don't hear on the new record. If I didn't think this was the best, I wouldn't put it out.”
Have side projects affected the sound? I know Gambler recently put out a record, and there's also Steve playing in Future of the Left, not to mention the guys in Kong. You're touring with Biffy Clyro at the moment, and my first thought upon hearing the new record was 'ah, that makes sense'...
“Er, the album was recorded and finished before I jumped on. I literally went from finishing the record to the next day rehearsing with Biffy, and Steven wasn't in Future of the Left at the time. I like to think that Gambler brought a lot of his solo album to the table. If you listen to 'A Penny's Weight', then there's all kinds of little things embedded in there that you might not spot for fucking ages, all of these weird textures buried in the mix. That was all him sitting there with a laptop while we were recording vocals or whatever- he kept flying in these wild sounds. He just 'sprinkles the fairy dust on', to quote the Troggs.”
The first release (before Self Preserved...) to be recorded in your studio was the Home and Minor EP, which was quite a departure from your last album, Frames. Self Preserved... is similarly a jump from that sound, so was there a conscious decision to go 'soft record', 'loud record'?
“We didn't plan it that far in advance. The whole Home and Minor thing was an experiment to see if the studio thing was going to work... it was a necessity. [The record company] needed something pronto and we were like 'fuck'. It was all pieced together- there were never two people playing at any given time. It was all one at a time and edited together on screen. We'd been talking about an ambient record for fucking years, so it was like 'right, cool,they want an EP, let's do it now. As soon as I came up with the music for 'Part Cardiac', it was like 'that's got to be first'... it's to keep people on their toes I guess, fuck with their heads a bit, and make them wonder what we're going to do next. We don't really know what kind of band we are, but we've tried to stop worrying about that.”
Have you got to the stage that it's... not irrelevant, but not something you can worry about anymore then?
“I've always said that if we did kind of know what we were supposed to be doing then that's when we'd fuck it up. If you start writing to a blueprint, if you start thinking 'oh, we're this kind of band, we've got to write this kind of music', then I think we're going to come a cropper.”
Do you feel it's taken a long time to get to where you are today?
“Well, not really. Maybe what comes with this history and this body of work is people going 'fuck, are they still going?', but you get a bit of respect, I think. [We've been going] twelve years, and I'm not sure it's something we should be shouting about.”
There were quite a few bands that emerged at the same time as you- My Vitriol, Vex Red, Cooper Temple Clause- but yourselves and Amplifier seem to be the only ones left standing. Do you see yourselves as survivors?
“It sounds like a cynical and nasty thing to say, but over the years we've seen so many people in bands who get their first album out and it doesn't hit the top ten, so they quit, or jump into another band because they think that'll be the one that hits the big time... it's so careerist. We've never been like that, it's just a compulsive need to do it [that drives us]; it's a fundamental requirement to each of us. I'm married, I've got a nice home life, a cat, but I don't think about anything else. It's not a matter of wanting to do it, but that you have to do it.”
The talk then diverted briefly to his friend Sel's band, Amplifier, and their white whale, the double album Octopus, with Mike laughing,
“I'll fucking believe it when I see it. I've been singing on it for about four years. It's Chinese Democracy, man. Y'know, back in the day, in like 1992 I had tickets to see Guns n' Roses. He [Axl Rose] showed up five days late, played for an hour, and it was fucking awful. That was it, I never listened to them again. As it happened, it was Faith No More supporting, and I was like 'this is the greatest band in the world, where have I been?'”
Speaking of Amplifier- Sel talks a lot about being 'entrepreneurial' as a band. Do you think today's bands need business sense where perhaps they didn't before?
“Well, I think Sel is going completely DIY. There's a lot of stuff to consider, like paying the right amount of tax. All this kind of stuff I don't have any idea about, it's why we have a manager. I just write songs, put them out, go out and play gigs. I couldn't even tell you how much it is to book our band. No idea.”
What would you say are your biggest influences, musical or otherwise?
“Tim Smith from Cardiacs. Just that unwillingness to do anything other than what he does. He's a friend of mine, but I can't get over the fact that he's so fucking talented. He's the only genius I'm ever likely to meet. To me, he's created another language.”
Have you got any hard-won advice to give your younger self?
“Don't start smoking, I've stopped now... I think that when I started doing interviews, when we first got signed, I regret a lot of the shit that I talked. I came across as really bitter and cynical, and I'm actually not; I'm really settled these days. Back then I was a really pissy little guy, but it's that hangover from being a teenager. 23 was when I just went 'I don't have to behave like this anymore'. It just takes a while for you to know who the fuck you are and accept who you are.”
Do you listen to any contemporary bands?
“Rolo Tomassi. That's probably my favourite album of the year so far. The new album by the Walkmen...[pause] The Vessels album is fucking great... [checks his iPod] Atlas Sound. The Books. Deerhoof. I Am Kloot. Jesca Hoop. The Melvins' new album, the new Mogwai live album, Part Chimp, St. Vincent... and it sounds so patronising, but however fucking good Charlie Barnes is now, imagine how good he's going to be in five, ten years' time. Oh, the new Autolux album too...”
It seems that at the moment there's an explosion of progressive, or 'eclectic' music at the moment, from a shoegaze revival to bands like Anathema, who are reworking the prog-rock template. Do you see yourselves as a part of this?
“We don't get invited to any parties, we aren't in any particular gang. I can't even say we have an affinity with band A or band B, because it might be insulting to them... I'd love to think that we have a lot in common with Rolo Tomassi, but they're fucking incredible, from another planet. We're slowly growing into our own skin, but we don't know what it is. I think when we do work out what kind of band we are, that's when we're going to be shit, start making shit records.”
Kind of like that guitarist's feeling where, looking back, you feel you were better when you started out than when you actually learned how to play properly?
“Yeah. That's absolutely true.”
What's your favourite bit of kit?
“Kit? Really? Erm, I just got a new amp- an Orange custom shop real Bad Motherfucker, I paid actual hard cash for it. It's fucking amazing. It's the amp that Steven Malkmus uses, I'm such a Pavement fanboy. It was like, whatever's making that guitar sound, give us it. Sel used to lend me his Green Big Muff back in the day, because they sound so big. Now I use a clone, because they take up so much fucking space- it's that huge bass end, the 'hoover guitar' as Mark calls it. I still play the same guitar my mum bought me for Christmas when I was 11.”
Everyone has a guitar soulmate, right?
“Yeah, absolutely!”
Can you remember the best show you've ever played?
“We played the Lowlands festival in 2004. We were on first, at one o' clock in the afternoon. Five minutes before we went on, there was nobody there, but when we walked on there were ten thousand people there who seemed to know all the songs, even though we hadn't even sold ten thousand records in Holland.”
Do you think downloading helps or hinders a band?
“If I ever found out that anybody [leaked our album], and I found out who it was, I would fucking decapitate them, it's such an abuse of power. The iTunes logo used to be a CD, now it's changed because iTunes reckon they will be outselling CDs in twelve months' time. If they're predicting it, it's probably going to happen... [but] even if the record companies all go under, people will still make music.”
How important is Manchester to the band?
“I don't we'd have got anywhere without it. I think it's a bit of a cliché to talk about how the rain there affects the mood... bands like the Smiths with a dark aesthetic... I don't know if we're a part of that, but certainly in respect of the fact that when we started everyone was ripping off Oasis or The Verve- the bad Verve, anyway- and we reacted against that, because we just weren't interested in that kind of stuff. None of us were into the Stone Roses or the Happy Mondays. It's been good to us, Manchester, even if we have never really been embraced by the 'cool' crowd.”
Could you have done as well in another city?
“No, I don't think we could have. Maybe Glasgow...”
Anyway, official looking guys from Biffy Clyro's management were hovering, and it was time to be closing up; I posed Mike my last question: what do you love about music?
“Everything. Ultimately, when you're walking down the street, there's a beat in your head, there's a melody in your head. It's literally the fucking fabric of my existence. I hear music in everything, absolutely everything.”
This interview was originally conducted for High Voltage shortly before the release of 'Self Preserved While The Bodies Float Up'. I've posted it as the link I used to it the other day doesn't seem to work anymore. On a more christmassy note:
[This was published in Issue #1 of my zine, Hipsters Unite; as I recall, I did the interview and Charlie Rawcliffe edited the transcript, so credit where it's due. I decided to publish this here from the 'print-only' zine because I think this may be the first interview the band have had, and to be honest I want to be there first. Ego and that]
Tripping Over Words: The World according to Tripwires
Currently in the studio finishing off their debut album, Reading’s shoegazers-in-chief, Tripwires, took a little bit of time out to talk to us:
What’s happening in the world of Tripwires?
‘We’re recording today, but hopefully we’ll be done by the end of the week, and the album will be coming out in March or April next year so we’ll be releasing some singles. Then I guess we’ll be touring, hopefully in lots of new places. Although, for us it's important that we keep writing songs; if we want a second album we’ve got to keep writing.’
What is it that motivates you to write?
Boredom; it’s not a great feeling, but it’s good for writing songs. But our influences play a part too.
What’s influencing you at the moment then?
666 by Aphrodite's Child, Spirit Of Eden by Talk Talk and watching documentaries about North Korea and Krautrock.
So how did you all get together and start playing?
We met at secondary school. You wouldn’t guess now, but we used to stay behind afterschool playing metal together.
What's the most difficult part of being in a young band?
Embarrassing questions about 'the band' from friends and family, and embarrassing questions about 'the band' from people who like Pendulum or Mumford and Sons; sometimes it’s best not to tell anybody. We won't get 'rich' and you're not going to 'see us on Top of the Pops'.
Can you remember the best gig you've ever played?
We once had Peroni in our rider, which was a bit special. The band we were supporting had Beck's though, so it's quite conceivable that the boxes got mixed up.
What's your favourite bit of kit?
We’re big fans of Roland Space Echos, as well as Death by Audio's Harmonic Transformer, that’s the dirtiest pedal we've ever played.
Do you think there's a shoegaze revival happening now? Any ideas as to why?
Perhaps, a lot of our favourite music has come as a reaction to the shit before it. Generally speaking, the quality of music put out in the last few years has been shocking. When people like Calvin Harris and Dizzee Rascal claim guitar music is dead, you know that change for the better is on its way. What better justification to play loud guitar music when shit pseudo-electro bands seem to dominate? Maybe a new generation of musicians will discover great music that was around when they were kids that they didn't know existed at the time, because all they heard on the radio was the fucking Spice Girls and Take That.
What is it that you love most about making music?
That when you record it, you commit something permanently, and that whilst playing live you can do something great, yet never hear it again. You can’t help but love both those things.
>>> Tripwires will be putting out their debut record on Club AC30 next year. If you want to hear some tracks that will probably be on it, go look up our podcast, as they sent me a bunch of tracks they'd been recording earlier this year before they signed with AC30. Merry Christmas.
I think this was actually the video that made me come to Manchester. Mike Vennart basically dicking around in the city while some pompous yank shoots his mouth off. Classic. Also includes the brilliant quote, "the future of British music is being driven by the sounds of Oceansize and Kasabian"- errr. Not only that, but there's a brilliant cameo of Noel Gallagher doing what he does best- being a total cunt.
Also, why not check out this video about all of Oceansize's gear. It took serious geekery to get even half of this information from Mike in interview; I might have saved myself the hassle if I'd known this existed. That said, if you do want to read that interview (it's long and rather good, though I say so myself), I'd go here:
[A much-shortened version of this piece was published in the last issue of High Voltage; here's the unedited version]
So now the NME is saying what we already knew; Manchester is the most exciting city on the planet for new music. When you cut though the buzz however, there's only really one true contender for the title besides your Delphic and your Everything Everything- Dutch Uncles. Famous already in these parts for their math-meets-indie guitars and frontman Duncan Wallis’s er- interesting dance moves, Dutch Uncles have just signed to Memphis Industries, recorded an album and their days as a carefully-kept secret of the city are about to end. High Voltage caught up with Duncan before they left for tour with Tokyo Police club, and had a pleasant chat over a cup of tea.
So Duncan, what are you guys upto at the moment?
“We've just been promoting the single, the début on Memphis Industries...”
Are they putting out the record then?
“Yeah, they are with us for a whole album.”
So your current focus is the album then?
“Yeah.”
What sort of stage are you at? Recording, mixing?
“We thought we'd finished- we spent the summer doing it in Salford University. It was good to get down and it got us a label. We were just doing it to get tracks down, and then found ourselves with a little sampler, and then label interest...”
So, did you send it to them, or did they approach you?
“We sent it off to them. They'd been in touch in the past- they liked 'The Ink', so we thought, “you liked 'The Ink', let's see how you like these four...””
It's a great single.
“I like what it does as a single, but unfortunately not enough people in our camp seem to think it will penetrate enough.”
Well it's quite different, compared to say 'Face In' or 'Steadycam', the songs you hear fans calling out for at shows... that's quite a bold choice for a single.
“It was the only song we had at the time we were choosing. We wrote this album very fast- we spent about nine months writing six songs, and then spent two months getting another five.”
Was that as a result of practising more, once you knew an album was in the works?
“As we saw a vision for the album, and as soon as you've got certain degrees, and knew what was missing, your writing becomes a lot more structured rather than 'make a single, make a single, make a single...'”
What's the songwriting process then? Do the songs come out of jams, or does everybody go away and work on things?
“It's strictly eighties- music, band arrangement, lyrics.”
Well, I meant, do you approach the structure organically, or is it all very planned- section A goes after B, X will be the chorus, or whatever?
“Well we always argue over what's a chorus and what's not. I personally think that vocals make a chorus... I write the hooks, so I know where it's going to be [laughs]. At the same time, I'm playing piano in the band again-”
It's funny you should say that, because I had this smug question all lined up about being a guitar-only band, and then I heard the piano...
“Well I used to play the synth, standing up, but it looked a bit Hot Hot Heat- like I didn't know which band I was supposed to be in... [this time] I was adamant I wanted to sit down, play it two handed, give the instrument some respect...”
Like Meat Loaf? Out front of stage with the spotlight...
“More like Axl.”
You'd need to grow your hair a bit longer, get a fan-
“Get a bit more bloated, and get on the coke.”
I don't know why every interview I do at the moment comes back to slagging off Axl Rose. I wonder if it's my influence...
“Well, he did come back and make a big mockery of himself. I'm not a fan, but y'know?”
In the wake of Everything Everything and Delphic breaking though, as well as that NME article, do you feel a bit weird about the exposure you're getting at the moment, or do you think it's come at a good time and you're ready for it?
“It feels great. If we were feeling cocky about it, we could say that we've been waiting for this for a long time... I mean we have- we've been playing in bands for six years, but I've now got a small collection of NMEs for my mum with me in them. Because it's been six years, and we've seen what's happened to Delphic and Everything Everything, we're very mature about it- we aren't like 'this is happening, it's going down'. We're realistic about it, we don't want to get too excited about it... until we get recognised in the street, I don't think we have to worry about it.”
I recently saw you described as a 'young band'- I mean, you're not old men or anything [Duncan is actually about a year and a half older than I], but you have been at this a while- you've already put out an album, after all, and yet major publications I've seen haven't made any mention of it at all. How do you feel about that?
“Well, that's often our doing. Our first album, well, it's obviously an album, but we always looked at it as a very professional demo that we did at the beginning of being Dutch Uncles, our first ten songs. We thought we'd go over, get big on the continent before jumping back over and going 'AHA!' but it didn't work out like that. We never thought it was over, but we had to say 'right, let's forget that happened, but let's keep the songs that we and the fans like'... it was never released properly in the UK, in our eyes anyway- I mean, it was in HMV in the Imports section, but... our 'Face In' video never got any video play. We only started getting radio play after we joined Love and Disaster and Memphis. It felt like starting again.”
So you had to draw a line under it?
“This next album has been treated very much like a first album- we're trying to write as many singles as possible, catch as many people as we can. When it comes to the next album, we'll be a bit more reserved and go, 'let's do two really good songs, and then try and weird people out as much as possible'. We've written in 4/4 as much as we can-
That's a change.
“Exactly. The last album was lots of different time signatures that sounded like 4/4, where as this album is lots of songs in 4/4 that sound like different things.”
So we can expect less King Crimson comparisons then?
“Yeah probably [laughs]. I never knew where people got that one from.”
The other day, the BBC ran an article, that (dumbly summarised) suggested that guitar music was “dying”. What do you think of that?
“Well yeah, as a fashion it's been on the way out for ages because people give too much respect to synthesisers... it's a thing a lot of people hide behind. They make a synth-based band, then bring in the backing tracks and it all gets a bit messy for my liking. My personal opinion is that I like nothing better than two guitarists on stage, doing it like it should be. It's really good, and it shows musicianship. Guitar music is never going to die out, but I think guitarists feel like they are fighting synthesisers and synthesiser [players] feel like they are fighting guitarists.”
I guess the whole 'synthesisers putting guitarists out of a job' argument has been around for a long time- that whole Musicians' Union thing from the '70s...
“The short end of it is that guitars don't sound like guitars anymore. They've had to evolve to survive. Since 2004, indie has had two waves- guitar-based and synth-based, and it's usually pretty obvious which way a band has gone...”
Bringing it back to Manchester, do you think the descriptions of the 'scene' here have been a help or a hindrance?
“People are a lot more willing to listen to your stuff, so if they like it, great!”
You've done most of your releases on vinyl, is there a reason for that? Do you think there's been a move back to it in recent years?
“Vinyl comes with download, so you get that, you get both. Downloads alone are just crap- you can't hold your music at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.”
The 12” sleeve is awesome...
“Yeah... it's like there's a Television vinyl that's been in Piccadilly Records for years... I got Islet's new EP- saw it and bought it without thinking about it. I'm collecting them up. I got the first one, so I got the second, and I'm going to have the third.”
So you're obviously a fan of the physical product, but you've now got enough stuff out there- and especially with a new album coming out- that you must be thinking about downloading now. Does it affect you as a musician? Is it something that concerns you?
“I don't like hearing about it. I've had people tell me they've downloaded my album illegally, to my face. It's kind of funny at the time, but...”
How do you react to that?
“I just go 'good lad', whatever. If you like it, you like it. It's not my fault if you've got bad taste in music collecting... I've got morals about it- I don't do it, I only buy vinyl. In relation to being an artist, we're told for a band at our stage, if it gets leaked then more people can hear it, and we're told that the money is in live shows, unless you're Kings of Leon... although we plan for the album to be as big as it can be, we haven't thought about making any money off of it; we've thought of making money off tours, off merch...”
So you're happy to see it getting out there as its own reward?
“Yeah, but don't leak it. [laughs]”
Speaking of shows, can you remember the best gig you've played? Is there one that sticks in your mind?
“The Bombay Bicycle Club gig at Koko. It was a full crowd and we could handle it. It was a great feeling... though every time we go up to Sunderland it's always a good gig. Barry from the Futureheads has championed us up there and Frankie and the Heartstrings push us too... but that Koko gig felt like we could handle a full crowd of kids, probably on legal highs...”
I can still remember when it was legal to buy mushrooms. I feel old now. That's probably why Muse were able to record Origin of Symmetry on shrooms...
“Really? How did they play all of those arpeggios on shrooms? Was it all a fluke? [laughs]”
Kind of a change of subject, but what's the best and worst part of being in a band?
“The best part is if you can be successful- there's nothing better than calling it your job, than being able to treat your friends, or get gifts around Christmas- if the band can pay for you to be a social, giving person. The worst part is the rest... [laughs] seriously, though the worst part is becoming your own harshest critic; there's a lot of negative thinking.”
The post-record blues?
“Probably. It's not like post-natal, but I do feel exhausted; I don't feel like I could write any more lyrics for a while now.”
Well, that's pretty much all of my questions exhausted, so to wrap up: what do you love about music?
[BIG pause] “...It makes you feel good to feel weird? I like singing along like an idiot. Also it's my job.”
To love music?
“Yeah, and I love that it is my job. You aren't going to write down every word I say right...?”
Dutch Uncles' new album is out soon on Memphis Industries. Their last two singles, The Ink and Fragrant, are out now on Love & Disaster and Memphis, respectively. They are playing a one-off special show on Monday the 29th of November at St. Phillips in Salford where Duncan assures me, “we're gonna play pretty much the whole album, plus some old ones... I get to play a xylophone solo.”
So I (aided by the most excellent Charles Rawcliffe Esq.) made a zine called 'Hipsters Unite!'- it's going to be stocked in Piccadilly Records and on the Superstar Destroyer Big Cartel, and features interviews with Daniel Land, Tripwires and Team Ghost, as well as a couple of album reviews, articles and a kind of 'introducing' feature. As it turns out, printing costs weren't as much as expected, so the next issue will be bigger and better. Think of this one as the 'beta', if you like, but do pick up a copy!
x
If you live in Manchester, head to Piccadilly Records from this Saturday, or....
This was published in the last print issue of HV, but I thought I'd put it up here...
On the eve of their set at the Edinburgh Fringe, HV managed to get Sleepy Sun’s frontman, Bret Constantino to take a break from his busy day and have a chat. An hour was then pleasantly passed talking about everything from downloading, “I wrote papers about it in college,” to life lessons, “it’s basically about prevailing over what you’re faced with,” to rather controversial vinyl fanboyisms- “CDs will soon be obsolete- they don’t last anyway! Ten or fifteen listens and they’re scratched.” Sleepy Sun, touring their recent ATP-released Fever record, are going from strength to strength, playing a string of European festival dates before returning to the States to play at ATP in New York.
“We’re having the time of our lives!” is the answer I get to my first question, which is encouraging in a role where you often hear mainly doom-and-gloom from emerging artists; apparently, life on the road suits this band- “every job or lifestyle has highs or lows- we face the same problems as everybody else, just on a different canvas… we don’t have a ‘home’ to go back to, but it’s quite liberating to have no anchor.” Bret elaborated, “you get to see a lot of the world, and it’s a good experience. Hopefully it’ll be the fuel for the new record…”
Pre-empting my next question, he was eager to talk of their plans for the follow-up to Fever- “we’re pretty much touring ‘til the end of the year… but we’re already marking off time for it.” A well-earned rest then? “we do our fair share of partying. There are certain legs of the tour where we are more exhausted than others.” I asked whether that been the best part of the tour, and he explained that it was different for different members of the band, but for him, “meeting people is one of the best things about touring” and reflected that “being in comfortable and uncomfortable situations builds character.”
Sleepy Sun’s sound spawns instant associations as well as questions; what influenced them more- their environment, or bands like The Grateful Dead and guitar players like Hendrix and Santana? Turns out that it’s a mixture, as these things often are; Bret was more than happy to tell me about how his early life and the band’s formation had influenced their music: “I grew up in a very small town in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada- rural environments are a huge influence on me obviously, recreating that peaceful and serene… vibration, I guess.” Unlike the other band members though, music wasn’t his focus until rather more recently- “I’ve always been into music, but I was a late bloomer. I didn’t start playing until college in Santa Cruz when I met the band. The environment there is special” Special? “well, there’s a famous bumper sticker that says ‘Keep Santa Cruz Weird’- it’s that kind of atmosphere.”
Lyrically, Fever lurches between the oblique and enigmatic to the simple refrains of a song like ‘Oh Boy’- so was there a consistent theme to the lyrics on the album? “Spirituality is a common theme. The lyrics are directly inspired by the melodies- I try and create some rhetoric out of them, describe what I’m hearing or what the music makes me feel. There’s ambiguity; the listener can derive different meanings. Spiritual experience, relationships, fear and the feeling of being overwhelmed, states of consciousness, love and things larger than I can possibly imagine; these will always find their way into songs.”
Bret talked of their slightly unconventional approach to the songwriting, where the instrumentals weren’t all planned out in advance, and left to await the vocals- indeed, from the construction of various tracks on the album, it’s clear that each cut’s genesis was different to that of the last. “They take form in a lot of different ways, from a concept or from a guitar riff or a drum rhythm pattern, and then we feed off each other; we try not to define roles. The drummer can pick up a guitar or vice versa. [That way] everyone’s got their own essence in different parts… that’s where we get the dynamic.
This seems obvious when you look at the desert-at-night quasi-prog of ‘Desert God’; with its fluid transitions and repeats upon themes and motifs, the song develops in a conspicuously natural, organic fashion. “Oh yeah, that song took different forms- it kept evolving and didn’t take definite shape until the day we recorded it.” Was I right there in suggesting an element of progressive rock to the band’s sound, I wondered? Lavishing praise on Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon opus, Bret said of ‘Money’- “I dig singles… but I’m attracted to the concept of having an overall theme or a sense of continuity- telling a story.” Did this affect individual songs on the album at all? “Yeah, each song should be a journey where the listener experiences transformation.”
Though Sleepy Sun has apparently only been a serious band for “two or three years”, they have already had some clear career highs and Bret obliged with a couple of stories. “When we played Primavera was the first. It was a beautiful setting, and we got to see Neil Young and Sonic Youth later… everyone was smiling and having a great time. We also performed with a children’s choir at SXSW this year- there was just an ecstatic sense of joy in performing.”
Bret isn’t sitting on the fence over downloading; Sleepy Sun gave away their debut, Embrace, free “for about a year” before ATP picked it up. He explained, “we just wanted people to hear it and react to it… that ended up working really well for us.” When it comes to downloading others’ music, he’s no less candid- “I download music, but if I really like it, I’ll go out and buy it.” He added that he couldn’t afford to buy all the albums “his ears demanded”, but shrugged “If I had the money, I’d pump lots of it into the industry by buying records, but it’s better to go to a show and buy a t-shirt or a poster anyway.”
He’s similarly black and white about what makes a great band- “mak[ing] a connection with the audience… you have to try and reach them in some way.” Winning them over in the first place is important, Bret says, because if they aren’t receptive then you can’t connect at all; but how do you do that? “The fact that we believe in our music can be very convincing. People can tell right off the bat if it’s a genuine expression, real or fabricated. We just try and conjure positive energy and entertain.” So, clearly the band have learned their Stagecraft 101 well, but I had to ask- is there any life or career advice he would give to his younger self that he’s learned along the way? “Uhm, life is much simple than sometimes it’s made out to be… sometimes you need to breathe and forget the extraneous distractions.”
With that, we were out of time. Time for the Closing Question: what does Bret love about music?
“Wow, ok. Let me think a sec… I love that it can be anything- everyone hears everything differently. Nothing is the same from person to person. Listening to music with people is fascinating- you can learn a lot about a person that way.”
The final word- how should I convince my friends to listen to his band?
Aha! It all comes together, as you see. I had the chance to put some questions to one of the best bands I've come across in the last few months, Boston's RIBS. Over the weekend, vocalist/guitarist Keith and lead guitarist Justin got together and took them on- the results are in, so have a look:
1. What is the band up to now? What are your plans for the future, and is there an album on the horizon?
Keith: Right now we're coming to grips with the fact that we have too many song ideas and not enough hours in the day. We're about to release two electronic-y singles, "Cosmos" and "Please Don't Go", and we're also writing our second EP Russian Blood which should be done by early next year.
2. What was the recording process for the EP like?
Keith: Fragmented.
Justin: All the parts for British Brains were recorded separately and at different times over the course of 2009. We tracked guitars, bass, and vocals in bedrooms and rehearsal spaces, then saved up enough money to spend a day doing drums at a nice studio.
3. Why 'British Brains'?
Keith: It's a WW2 quote from Stalin during the Teheran Conference with Winston Churchill and Teddy Roosevelt. He said the war was being fought with "British brains, American brawn and Russian blood." [I guess that explains EP2's name then...]
4. What would you say your main influences are, musical or otherwise? Were there are any bands that have had a particular influence on your sound or your attitude towards your music?
Keith: The influences behind British Brains are fairly straightforward. Mostly rock bands. Smashing Pumpkins, My Bloody Valentine, Our Lady Peace. As a band, though, we've got a lot of influences that have yet to show up like David Bowie, The Beatles, The Beach Boys, Fleetwood Mac, Sneaker Pimps, Elliot Smith, M83, Arcade Fire, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club. And more recently Grizzly Bear and Liars.
Outside of music, we take inspiration from anything that makes us feel more alive or draws us in. Christian Bale's character in American Psycho. [Bassist] Blake [Fusilier] had us read Patti Smith's new book Just Friends, which is about bohemian culture and her life in NYC during the late 60s and early 70s. And to those who are depressed about the state of music over the last few years... I think we are in the golden age of television. Mad Men, The Wire, Dexter... Amazing things are being done in the TV world. So anyway, the four of us are always analyzing pop culture and art to help us figure out how to implement our ideas–how we can make people feel a certain way with a song, our live set, album artwork, etc.
Justin: Definitely a huge fan of Dexter, but for me a lot of inspiration comes from movies. It's the culmination of a lot of different things being delivered over different mediums all at once. The aesthetic of the film itself, the film score, acting, story, dialogue, etc. Movies allow me to totally lose myself and exist in a suspended state of reality, even if it's only for a couple of hours.
5. You successfully managed to self-generate a lot of buzz through Reddit for your self-released EP; as a result, do you see a record label as still being relevant given that DIY appears to have worked so well for you?
Justin: We're not waiting on anyone, but we're keeping our options open.
Keith: Exactly. Artists today don't need a label to survive, but on the other hand we want to do more than just survive. We've got big plans and there's no way we're going to be able to pull them off without putting together a great team. So it's really a question of, do they pay us or do we pay them?
6. What's your view on downloading? Does it help or hinder bands?
Keith: We have a neutral stance on piracy. We won't judge you if you download our music. But I don't know that we could afford to keep going if it weren't for the incredible support we got from the Reddit users who came out in droves, paying for our EP and sharing it with their friends. It was a humbling experience and we're incredibly grateful for it.
I think there's an expectation now that new acts have to give away their music in exchange for the exposure, and eventually that exposure will pay off. A lot of bands think that's the best way to get their music heard by as many people as possible. But we made a very conscious decision not to release the EP for free, because we don't want to give people the impression that we don't want their money, or that we won't put it to good use. Because we will. And I think in the long run, more people will hear our music and more RIBS material will be released because of all the people that decided to support us early on.
Plus the EP is free to stream on our Bandcamp page (hear.ribstheband.com), so everyone can hear it and share it with their friends that way too. [I've included this at the bottom for you, my lovely readers; it's also on the review page for British Brains- don't I make this easy?]
7. What do you prefer: playing live, or on the record?
Justin: Both are very different from one another. While I love recording and exploring what can be done to a song in the recording process, those 40 minutes on stage, when time stops and all you're doing is just playing, is the most fun I can have. That's the happiest I could possibly be.
8. Your sound is pretty tech heavy; what's your favourite bit of kit?
Keith: I have to give a shout out to SoundToys for their Echoboy plugin, which helped create the vocal sound for "Even" and the guitars on "Silencer". I don't think either of those songs would've been possible without it. I also love my Zvex Box of Rock distortion pedal. Blows me away every time.
Justin: I used my Diezel VH4s amp for the leads on British Brains.
9. How did the band get started in the first place?
Keith: Blake and I grew up together in Atlanta. We started writing together in 2001 and became best friends. Then we had a falling out, stopped talking for a while, and I went to Boston for college. We started talking again, then Blake got stir crazy in Atlanta and transferred to Boston University.
When I first got to music school, I was hearing about some guy named Justin Tolan who was this shred guitar prodigy. Then a few years later we started hanging out in the same circles and I found out he's actually into a lot of the stuff I'm into. And it turned out he was from Atlanta too.
Then maybe a year later my dad ran into him at a used guitar shop in Atlanta on break from school. Still, nothing came of it. Some time after that, I responded to a 'band-wanted' ad he put up around town listing Aphex Twin, Radiohead, and Muse, not knowing who posted it. The moral is, all roads lead to Justin Tolan.
When we first met [drummer] Chris [Oquist], he told us he was playing in a metal band and his favorite artists were The Beatles and Paul Simon. That pretty much sealed the deal.
10. Can you remember the best show you've ever played?
Keith: My personal favorite was at this church in Pennsylvania that looked like an empty airplane hangar. It was huge, and we took full advantage of the space. I knocked over the mic stand with my guitar, Justin slammed into me, Blake was throwing stuff... It felt great.
11. What do you love about music?
Justin: The people you meet and the experiences you can have are new every day. No matter how much you learn about music there's always something new to learn. Based on all the people you meet and the things there are to learn, the possibilities are endless. And there's no age limit. I'm sure I'll be 70 years old playing a piano somewhere until I die or go deaf.
Well, there you have it. Lovely chaps, great music, and we wish them all the success they deserve. Now to start planning the UK tour.... (wishful thinking never hurt anybody.)
Live shots (c) LunahZon Photography (http://www.lunahzon.com/) / Exploding in Sound
Group shot (c) RIBS the band.
Before his slot at the Academy, the largest show he’s ever played, HV were fortunate enough to catch up with Frank Turner. He strolls tiredly into the room, soft drink in hand, and admits that after a morning of interviews he’s exhausted. It’s not long however before the conversation slips into a comfortable discourse, and Frank’s answers tell of a sharp intelligence coupled with a willingness to voice his opinions honestly, however brutally so. Having said that, what would you expect from a man who finished his third year History Dissertation while on tour with Million Dead in Europe?
HV: What would you say are your biggest influences, musical or otherwise?
FT: I grew up with punk rock. That kind of informs everything I do, there’s no escaping that. In recent years it’s the Big Three: Springsteen, Neil Young and Dylan. In the whole folk-rock, singer- songwriter territory they are inescapable.
HV: Your current set-up is very different from Million Dead, even with the band backing you- how does it compare?
FT: It is very different. When Million Dead broke up I decided I didn’t want to be in a band anymore. The intermeshing politics in Million Dead were fucking ridiculous. I played on my own for eighteen months to set the groundwork for what happens now… my band now is a dictatorship, not a democracy. I’d like it to be a constant, like the E-Street Band. I want people to know the names of Ben Lloyd, Matt Nasir, Nigel Powell and Tarrant Anderson as well as mine. Those are my boys. In Million Dead we were wide-eyed idealists, and I think we were probably dickheads… I can’t believe I just said that!
HV: Can you remember the best show you’ve ever played?
Frank pauses, momentarily lost in thought, so I try to prompt him: “was it with your first band? Like, your first ever gig?”
FT: Ha, no it wasn’t that… with Kneejerk I remember the first show I ever played that people sang along to words that I’d written. That was in Manchester actually, at some tiny practice rooms- it really blew me away. Tonight’s the biggest show I’ve ever headlined… before the London show that is. The other week I played in New Jersey to three hundred people who knew all the words to my songs. It’s a weird feeling being that far away and getting that reaction.
HV: What are your plans for after this tour?
FT: Europe after the UK, then the West Coast of the US, then Australia and New Zealand. After that, a ten-day tour of China. I really don’t know what to expect from that… then it’s festival season. My tour schedule runs through to February next year.
Frank explains that he’s writing his new album for the end of this year, and that he’s also planning an album of traditional English folk songs. He’s also writing a book; explaining, “I’m coming up to my thousandth solo show,” he’s choosing a hundred entries in his tour diary to turn into a consistent narrative of his life on the road thus far. I ask him, is he sure he’s keeping himself busy enough?
FT: I’m a workaholic. I’m haunted by the idea that my enthusiasm or my songwriting will dry up. If Dylan can get writer’s block, then so can I.
HV: What do you think of the current musical climate? For that matter, as someone who’s very involved in the punk scene, any thoughts on that? The US and UK scenes are very different…
FT: I don’t know and I don’t really care. I don’t care about scenes. It’s always struck me as a rubbish reason to like a band, because they came from a certain town. I’m still working my way through the Gram Parsons bootlegs.
He goes on to mention Frightened Rabbit and Gallows as favourites, as well as expressing admiration for Craig Finn (of The Hold Steady), Aiden Moffatt (Arab Strap) and John le Sampson (The Weaker Thans) as lyricists. He confesses that he’s not familiar with Andrew Jackson Jihad although he’s been recommended them several times.
HV: What is your view on illegal downloading? Do you think downloading helps or hinders musicians?
Ok, so I’m going to pause here and observe that this question provoked a nearly half-hour discussion. I’ll set it up by my comment that Dead Confederate had come out in favour of downloading in an earlier interview of mine.
FT: They have the luxury of saying that. They are paid by a label. I’m on an independent, and I have less money than when I was a student. As it is I work as hard as I do and I live with my mum. I’m playing to 2,400 people tonight and I can’t even afford a flat. There’s a short-term and a long-term. As long as record companies rely on record sales then the artist is getting fucked. We’re rapidly reaching a time when all music will be free. I’m not necessarily saying that’s bad… but lots of people work hard in this industry… other things need to change or two things will happen: less music will be made and it will be of a lower quality.
Frank refutes my assessment that Radiohead did well off their last album, “nobody paid for it; why do you think they buckled and released it on CD?” I ask about The Crimea’s free album- pointing out it notched up 120,000 individual downloads for a cult band, “exactly, I know those guys. Do you see them touring off it?”
FT: We’re in an attention-deficit market. People only care about singles and the record companies have been forced into an economic position which focuses on the hit debut record. Neil Young didn’t come into his own for a couple of albums; Kevin Shields hates playing live. Neither Young nor My Bloody Valentine could exist today.
I point to the growth of niche labels to allow the emergence, for example of a new shoegazing scene:
FT: Sure, but those don’t sell enough that the bands can live off it. If you got a record out in the 70s, people would buy it. These days, it’s about getting heard amongst the noise. Madonna’s taken a step that’s ahead of the curve by signing to Live Nation rather than a label- now her records only act to promote her tours. The bottom line is that this is a business. If people are consuming music then they need to contribute financially. The ‘I’m fucking the man’ attitude is wrong; it’s just a rationalisation for stealing. If you download my album, you aren’t fucking David Geffen, you’re fucking me and my friends who run the label with me.
After that passionate discussion, I decide to close with something I hope he feels equally passionate about.
HV: What do you love about music?
FT: I don’t know. It’s so completely infused in my life. It sounds pretentious, but I can’t imagine my life without this much music in it… it’s the context for everything. I just fucking love to play guitar and sing. It’s the coolest thing in my life and I hope nothing ever comes between me and that. It’s a fucking joy. My life would be fucking empty without it.
Frank Turner is on tour for the foreseeable future. His newest album, Poetry of the Deed is out now.
So looks like I'm getting my 'The End of Music?' article in Student Direct next week. Sweet. In the meantime, here's an interview with the excellent Charlie Barnes. Reminder: Bar 1:22, Huddersfield, Monday 31st May. You can check out the details here: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=187702946&ref=ts#!/event.php?eid=407772552673&ref=mf .
In the meantime, I'll let the man speak for himself.
Charlie Barnes - Voice of the Geekks
1. I first saw you supporting Amplifier- how did you end up there and was that your 'big break' in any way?
I pestered them on myspace for a while, and the rest is history! I wouldn’t call it a big break, but I’m not really bothered about any of that stuff. I got to tour with my heroes, play on their songs, and earn the respect of some of my other biggest heroes along the way. Fuck ‘big breaks’, I’m happy. (Though a bit of cash to pay the rent wouldn’t go amiss…)
2. Have you ever been in any 'full' bands as opposed to playing solo?
Oh aye, loads. I did have a sort of band briefly to play my stuff before I worked out all of the looping. But two years down the line of wandering the north-west with only myself to keep me company has rendered me desperate for interaction. Thus, ‘Charlie Barnes & The Geekks’ has happened.
3. What are your biggest influences, musical or otherwise?
Oceansize, Radiohead and Pink Floyd all pretty much changed my life. At the moment I’m listening to loads of Jeff Buckley, avant-garde jazz and David Sylvian’s latest album ‘Manafon’. I get a lot of inspiration from books too. They’re my little escape. George Monbiot’s stuff has always had a big influence on my writing, and Mark Z. Danielewski’s ‘House of Leaves’ has been a huge influence on my newer stuff. Memory and reality and that sort of thing. Fucking insane book.
4. What is your take on downloading? Does it help or hinder a young band/artist?
Dunno. Musicians definitely don’t get anywhere near enough money for doing their job. Except the ones who play whatever the big company wants. My problem with downloading is the way that people (mostly younger) nowadays have instant gratification for EVERYTHING. Films, music, TV on demand; there’s no waiting around for anything. I even get angry when my internet takes more than two seconds to load a page up. But because of this instant gratification thing, no-one can really be arsed to come to gigs. They don’t have to pay for recorded music anymore, so why should they have to pay for seeing the band live? And then you just get the handful of GOOD people who come to your gig, buy your CD, and have every knowledge that they’re literally paying for your food.
5. How do you create your live sound?
200 odd metres of cable, a laptop, a looper, a vocoder, a delay pedal, and my big loud voice. I never write with the live performance in mind; I’ll only do looping if it suits the tune I’m playing. I can’t stand watching these noodly buggers layering boring guitar riff upon boring guitar riff. Get some tunes!
6. What are you upto at the moment, and what are your plans for the future?
I’m just finishing off my new album ‘Geekk’, and then I’ll be releasing that at a big album launch party in Huddersfield on May 30th with the band. After that I’ll be living in Leeds and trying not to starve, and hopefully playing some more gigs with the band. A tour or two wouldn’t go amiss either….they’re fun. I’ve already got a lot of the next record sketched out, so I’ll pretty much get working on that straight away. It’ll be a few years ‘til I’m happy with it though.
7. What tracks will feature on 'Geekk'?
A City Built, Architects, This Boy Blind, Bedroom, Degas Dancer, Bluebell, Oradour, Geekk, Snakes, Ladders & Aeroplanes, Final Call. 10 tunes, 40 odd minutes; that’s how they’re supposed to be, right? Some of these songs are about 5 years old! It’s been nice re-recording the ‘No Offenkk’ stuff with real strings and drums etc. It sounds a whole lot better!
8. What's your opinion of the contemporary music scene? Any recommendations?
Some of it’s great, some of it’s shite. I played with a band called Revere last night and they blew my socks off. Sometimes playing bill after bill with dull indie bands you start to worry that there’s nothing interesting anymore, then a band like Revere reminds you that things are OK. I hate the way that unsigned bands are all trying to…I dunno…’get noticed’ and do everything the ‘right way’. Fuck it, have some fun. I like the unexpected. The best album of the last year was easily the Blue Roses album. That’s a PROPER album. No-one’s going to remember who this that or the other indie band is next year. It’s a fad. People like Blue Roses, Revere and Amplifier make the sort of music that you will listen to for the rest of your life; it actually has a bit of substance. It isn’t the kind of rubbish that people dance around to in nightclubs when they’re off their face and can’t remember in the morning.
9. Sell me Charlie Barnes in ten seconds.
Charlie Barnes does whatever he wants to do, and has a lot of fun doing it. Charlie Barnes is not cool.
10. Where can you see music going from here? (broad, I know)
I hope a lot more independent. That whole Radiohead thing was obviously a bit of a turning point, and I hope it has a decent impact. I like the idea of bands just doing it on their own. You don’t need some big label or any of that shit. If you can get 500 people to be excited about your new release, buy it, and come to your shows, what more do you really need? It’ll just keep going in cycles, like it always has done. Dance will probably be bigger in a year or two and the indie thing will die out, then metal and hard rock will get big again…blahblahblah. I doubt big, orchestral moody pop music is going to be topping the charts anytime soon though….
11. Live, or on the record?
Both. I always think they should be completely different. There’s no point in trying to fully re-create what you’ve done on an album onstage, because you can’t. An album’s a fixed thing that you listen to on speakers or headphones and you have to imagine how they made it; a live performance is people playing stuff in front of you. It’s a wholly different experience. I love seeing bands play live who do things differently to the album/recorded versions. Imogen Heap’s a prime example. And MuteMath too.
12. Favourite bit of kit?
My big, black Yamaha piano. You can’t beat a real piano.
I mainly like the four Big Ps: Post-Rock, Progressive Rock, Punk and er, Pshoegaze. I'm also partial to a bit of Trip-Hop.
Submissions for review are very welcome- get in touch at acelynham [at] hotmail [dot] com if you have something you think I might like, or use the DropBox below.
Other stuff I do:
Run this - http://www.superstardestroyer.co.uk/
News Editor (2010-2011)- High Voltage
http://www.highvoltage.org.uk/
Contributor - The Fly
http://www.the-fly.co.uk/
Contributor - This is Fake DIY
http://www.thisisfakediy.co.uk/
Contributor - Noize Makes Enemies (2009-2011)
http://www.noizemakesenemies.co.uk/
Play in -
http://www.myspace.com/nowhereagainuk
I also freelance for Classic Rock Presents: Prog. That's pretty sweet.
